From: Ricardo SIGNES Date: 20:00 on 06 Nov 2005 Subject: Steve Jobs doesn't care about brown people --HnQK338I3UIa/qiP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable e is not =E9 They are different. When I start typing the artist into track info in iTunes, and I type "Jos=E9" do not autocomplete to "Jose A. Casta=F1eda." I know you think I can keep typing to correct you, iTunes, but you are wrong. If I keep typing, I end up with "Jose Urfe" and then I have to go back to replace the e with an =E9. So, in closing: e is not =E9 --=20 rjbs --HnQK338I3UIa/qiP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDbmDC5IEwYcR13KMRAr2RAKCUp7l56HVIqtWG99Ag8b1iVnmMlACeK7Fz LQuz3bHvK0LjMm/hEKltRiw= =VGy5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HnQK338I3UIa/qiP--
From: A. Pagaltzis Date: 20:47 on 06 Nov 2005 Subject: Re: Steve Jobs doesn't care about brown people * Ricardo SIGNES <rjbs-hates@xxxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx> [2005-11-06 21:05]: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > e is not =E9 Your mailer is not a whole lot better if it says "unknown-8bit" when what you're sending is ISO-8859-1 or some similar encoding. Regards,
From: Juerd Date: 20:51 on 06 Nov 2005 Subject: Re: Steve Jobs doesn't care about brown people A. Pagaltzis skribis 2005-11-06 21:47 (+0100): > Your mailer is not a whole lot better if it says "unknown-8bit" > when what you're sending is ISO-8859-1 or some similar encoding. A funny thing, though, is that his mailer is a newer version of your mailer. Be prepared. Juerd
From: A. Pagaltzis Date: 21:08 on 06 Nov 2005 Subject: Re: Steve Jobs doesn't care about brown people * Juerd <juerd@xxxxxxxxxxx.xx> [2005-11-06 21:55]: > A funny thing, though, is that his mailer is a newer version of > your mailer. Be prepared. Probably has more to do with his using PGP; I've had the displeasure to see encoding-related hatefulness when it was involved before. I always meant to get around to PGP myself; I suppose I shall make sure to be prepared when the time comes. Regards,
From: Ricardo SIGNES Date: 21:03 on 06 Nov 2005 Subject: Re: Steve Jobs doesn't care about brown people --K/NRh952CO+2tg14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable * "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@xxx.xx> [2005-11-06T15:47:52] > * Ricardo SIGNES <rjbs-hates@xxxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx> [2005-11-06 21:05]: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dunknown-8bit > > Content-Disposition: inline > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >=20 > > e is not =3DE9 >=20 > Your mailer is not a whole lot better if it says "unknown-8bit" > when what you're sending is ISO-8859-1 or some similar encoding. That's my fault, not my mailer's, really. I've spent zero seconds on making my toolchain useful for non-7-bit characters. I think if I took a minute, I could make mutt/vim/iTerm happy together. I just haven't. --=20 rjbs --K/NRh952CO+2tg14 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDbm+75IEwYcR13KMRAkbHAJwPVqxmSJnUv+Q6xee9c0EF6JMTRwCghunK H3ozfNVFICASSP/aTv56bRo= =MiV2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --K/NRh952CO+2tg14--
From: David Champion Date: 22:02 on 06 Nov 2005 Subject: Re: Steve Jobs doesn't care about brown people * On 2005.11.06, in <20051106200002.GE27557@xxxxxxx.xxx>, * "Ricardo SIGNES" <rjbs-hates@xxxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > > They are different. Indeed; yet: > When I start typing the artist into track info in iTunes, and I type > "José" do not autocomplete to "Jose A. Castañeda." I know you think I > can keep typing to correct you, iTunes, but you are wrong. If I keep > typing, I end up with "Jose Urfe" and then I have to go back to replace > the e with an é. In this case, iTunes might be doing you more of a service than you think. Well, maybe not you, but the broader collective of itunes users. Can any of us even begin to guess how many Josés are shown as Jose in IMD^H^H^HGracenote(tm)? I'll stop with that. Can you begin to guess how much I loathe Gracenote? Ti Kan, you had a fine idea, but coopting (a) a lot of people's labor and (b) a lot of people's slack into a commercial service is sort of wormy.
From: A. Pagaltzis Date: 22:57 on 06 Nov 2005 Subject: Re: Steve Jobs doesn't care about brown people * David Champion <dgc@xxxxxxxx.xxx> [2005-11-06 23:05]: > Can any of us even begin to guess how many Josés are shown as > Jose in IMD^H^H^HGracenote(tm)? I'll stop with that. Please do not mention CDDB. Not even on this list. Its hatefulness will engulf the cosmos. Regards,
From: Daniel Pittman
Date: 23:09 on 06 Nov 2005
Subject: Re: Steve Jobs doesn't care about brown people
"A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@xxx.xx> writes:
> * David Champion <dgc@xxxxxxxx.xxx> [2005-11-06 23:05]:
>> Can any of us even begin to guess how many Jos=E9s are shown as
>> Jose in IMD^H^H^HGracenote(tm)? I'll stop with that.
>
> Please do not mention CDDB.
>
> Not even on this list.
Oh, but why not? Other than being produced before XML was hewn from
SGML ^W stone ^W^W^W invented, it is pretty much the Aristotelian ideal
form of hateful software.
I mean, who wouldn't love a file format that sticks key information into
the comments? That fails to specify encodings? That contains random
crap in differing units without specifying what they mean, or are?
Honestly, how can you not love this? It shows that no matter how
painfully bad the software you are working with today is, it could be
*SO MUCH WORSE* if you needed CDDB data as well!
Daniel
From: =?iso-8859-1?b?U+liYXN0aWVu?= Aperghis-Tramoni Date: 23:28 on 06 Nov 2005 Subject: Re: Steve Jobs doesn't care about brown people Daniel Pittman <daniel@xxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: > "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@xxx.xx> writes: > > * David Champion <dgc@xxxxxxxx.xxx> [2005-11-06 23:05]: > >> Can any of us even begin to guess how many Josés are shown as > >> Jose in IMD^H^H^HGracenote(tm)? I'll stop with that. > > > > Please do not mention CDDB. > > > > Not even on this list. > > Oh, but why not? Other than being produced before XML was hewn from > SGML ^W stone ^W^W^W invented, it is pretty much the Aristotelian ideal > form of hateful software. > > I mean, who wouldn't love a file format that sticks key information into > the comments? That fails to specify encodings? That contains random > crap in differing units without specifying what they mean, or are? Hmm.. Aren't you confusing CDDB with ID3 here? Granted, both are equally hateful in this regard :-) -- Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni Close the world, txEn eht nepO.
From: Daniel Pittman
Date: 23:45 on 06 Nov 2005
Subject: Re: Steve Jobs doesn't care about brown people
S=E9bastien Aperghis-Tramoni <maddingue@xxxx.xx> writes:
> Daniel Pittman <daniel@xxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> "A. Pagaltzis" <pagaltzis@xxx.xx> writes:
>> > * David Champion <dgc@xxxxxxxx.xxx> [2005-11-06 23:05]:
>> >> Can any of us even begin to guess how many Jos=E9s are shown as
>> >> Jose in IMD^H^H^HGracenote(tm)? I'll stop with that.
>> >
>> > Please do not mention CDDB.
>> >
>> > Not even on this list.
>>
>> Oh, but why not? Other than being produced before XML was hewn from
>> SGML ^W stone ^W^W^W invented, it is pretty much the Aristotelian ideal
>> form of hateful software.
>>
>> I mean, who wouldn't love a file format that sticks key information into
>> the comments? That fails to specify encodings? That contains random
>> crap in differing units without specifying what they mean, or are?
>
> Hmm.. Aren't you confusing CDDB with ID3 here?
Oh, no. Not at all. Take a look at a CDDB record some time.
In fact, let me highlight this for you:
# xmcd CD database file generated by Grip 3.0.4
Ah, the traditional '^#' for comments.=20
# Track frame offsets:
# 150
# 30817
# 55897
# 78250
#=20
# Disc length: 1536 seconds
Except here, where we have data that every single package uses stored in
what would otherwise appear to be comments.
DTITLE=3DMinistry / Ministry Box: Burning Inside + Jesus Built My Hotro
DTITLE=3Dd
Ah, random length limitations, and sticking the content of two fields
into one, with a delimiter between them. Hope you didn't want to use
'/' in the name of your artist anywhere...
> Granted, both are equally hateful in this regard :-)
Oh, yes. Hate, hate, hate.=20=20
Daniel
BonusHATE: FreeBSD ports. Why is it that the tools for dealing with
these all seem to suck?
From: A. Pagaltzis
Date: 00:43 on 07 Nov 2005
Subject: Re: Steve Jobs doesn't care about brown people
* Daniel Pittman <daniel@xxxxxxxx.xxx> [2005-11-07 00:50]:
> Oh, no. Not at all. Take a look at a CDDB record some time.
If you want an overload of hate, go look at the ridiculously
overcomplicated protocol. (I tried to implement a client before I
knew what I was getting myself into.)
Also, have you downloaded a CDDB database sometime? Millions of
files. I was reading of someone's despair a few years ago who
tried to implement some sort of "list latest additions" for his
CDDB server because of the boneheaded structure.
I'm sure all the server software is totally braindead. How could
it be otherwise when every data structure and format it relies on
is so utterly spastic.
Of course, a lot of the data is low-quality. And that's before
you factor in the ambiguities caused by the violently broken
format ("tonight, our guests in your favourite guess-the-charset
show are...").
The whole thing is pure and unadulterated hate from end to end.
It's a wonder that anything with CDDB written somewhere on it
works at all.
Regards,
From: David Champion Date: 23:46 on 06 Nov 2005 Subject: Re: Steve Jobs doesn't care about brown people * On 2005.11.06, in <1131319723.436e91ab8b5bc@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xx>, * "Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni" <maddingue@xxxx.xx> wrote: > > Hmm.. Aren't you confusing CDDB with ID3 here? > Granted, both are equally hateful in this regard :-) Oops, I did mean CDDB, not IMDB. I always make that mistake since, like CDDB, IMDB is a hateful commercial cooption of public data. But anyway, the reason I place the blame here is that most slackards (myself included) will sooner accept whatever garbage the CDDB contains when they rip a cd than take the time to fill in all the details properly and with accurate character encodings. So most people have craptastic data in their iTunes, and doing flaky searching can be a bonus in that scenario.
From: Simon Wistow Date: 09:20 on 07 Nov 2005 Subject: Re: Steve Jobs doesn't care about brown people On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 10:09:13AM +1100, Daniel Pittman said: > Oh, but why not? Other than being produced before XML was hewn from > SGML ^W stone ^W^W^W invented, it is pretty much the Aristotelian ideal > form of hateful software. See this http://www.jwz.org/doc/cddb.html from the man whose Really Bad Attitude list could be considered an evolutionary forebear of this very list.
Generated at 17:46 on 21 Sep 2006 by mariachi